Need quick help IDing this Kay/Supro/Murph/Airline axe!

[VintageGuitars_89]

I've had all sorts of kinda helpful advice on it. It's possible that the PG assembly is home made (obviously, the pickups are out of a kay, or kay-made guitar). The woodwork and routing is too professional to be a frankenstine. Looks REALLY high-quality. Strings thru the body, and once again, appears too original and professional to be home made. Here are some possible brands - Murph, Supro, Kay, Airline, National, Valco??? HELP ME PLEASE!!! I can't find anything even close! I think it may be really valuable! Thanks!!!!!

[simonm]

I don't want to sound mean, but 'rare' doesn't always mean 'valuable' - there has to be demand too.
The neck is definitely National.

[VintageGuitars_89]

Hey, thanks for the advice. I'm a collector and dealer, I DEFINITELY know that rare does not always mean valuable. I do know this is valuable, though. If nothing else, it's worth alot in parts. What's a Kay Kessel Kleenex pickup worth? $75-$100 each? '50s Grovers? It's put together with some super rare and valuable parts. Well, if you're sure it's a national neck, what companies may have done business w/ National? Did Kay and National ever build a prototype? I'm SUPER interested in this guitar!

[simonm]

[Michael Ambrose]

Okay. First off... Definately NOT a Murph. hahaha...

Second... gonna need some better pictures to tell for sure: specifically, we'll need a headstock (top/back) and neck heel close up. I'd LOVE to get a look at whats under that pickguard. Pull it and shoot it if you can.

I've got to call "one-off" on this one... a composite of about ten different components. Maybe someone working the line at Valco had some spare time and tendencies towards cleptomania. Ever hear that song by Cash about building a Cadillac one stolen part at a time? Thats what I'm thinking here. hahaha...

Seriously though... a "prototype" (if thats what it is) will only fetch so much (cash and/or interest). And its definately not a production model from one of the Chicago houses. You WILL NOT FIND a stock/mass production Nat'l, Valco, Supro, Airline, or Kay with neither that body style, string-thru body, NOR set neck, in any combination therein. Perhaps a small-time luthier? Don't EVER put down a home-builder/custom shopper. Some of these cats are phenominal (like Hi-Tone or Carl Petty's Retrotone).

I, myself, order necks from Warmoth with special-cut headstocks copied straight from my old Supro necks... and I could rattle off a good few companies/individuals that use that style headstock. It could really be anyone.

Have you pulled the guard off completely? Pot code dates?

Is that a double-bound body?... that just adds to the mystery!

Have you black-lighted the body to see if its a re-spray?... that could point us somewhere...

A few other ideas... Standel maybe? Bill Gruggett? Or Microfrets? They used some funky bodyshapes like that...

Its that string-thru design thats really throwing me off. You're hard-pressed to find ANYONE using a string-thru design in the early 60's, if thats when you suppose this guitar dates from... but then again, I own a one-off unbranded Semie Moseley-built Ventures model with a string-thru design that is neck-marked at 1969... so who knows?? haha...

That body/neck combo (minus the headstock) looks so familiar... I KNOW I've seen it somewhere before. Imma keep digging until I find something.

[twalker]

The Valco group bought Kay in the 60's.

I read some where that Kay made bodies for National. This was around the time when National moved to Chicago.

[cheepaxes]

The body style is the same as a a Kay that I own. Mine is one of the ones with (what I call) the "lady shoe" headstock - 6 on a side. Mine is the one with one pickup afixed beneath a bulge in the pickguard and with a pattern that looks line the face of a Kleenex pup embossed in the plastic. I've seen these same body shapes used in models that had actual pickups mounted in the pickguard, and with 3x3 headstocks.

See:

http://www.scottmcknight.com/KayF.jpg

But any trip through old Kays being sold on eBay should turn up a few more of the bodies.

-Scott

[Michael Ambrose]